The three month rule

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The three month rule

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Bulgarianlily

Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 1667
Location: South West Mountains of Bulgaria

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 5:49 am Post subject: The three month rule

I don't know which countries in Europe apply the 'three month rule' for residency and which don't. Here in Bulgaria according to EU law, you can stay for three months in any six month period, i.e. 90 days out of 180 days. After that you are regarded as living in the country and you have to register and produce evidence of various things. This basically is to prove that you can support yourself, that you have somewhere to live and will not be a burden on the health care system. A bank account with money in it, or proof of a job or pension, proof that you have an address and some kind of health insurance is therefore needed. Then you can get your long stay card and after five years of living here you can then apply for permanent residency. Citizenship is a different matter, requiring a language exam and in our case the giving up of previous citizenship.

If you overstay your three month period you can be deported. I assume from what I have read that in the case of the Roma in France, the grounds on which they legally can deport is simply some evidence that the people concerned have been there over three months without registering, (difficult to do obviously if you are living in a shanty town with no job or bank account). However perfectly legal given EU law. People in the UK often have the perception that the 'freedom of movement' under EU law means you can live anywhere you choose for as long as you like within the EU boundaries but that is not the case. A great many Brits seem to be living in Bulgaria illegally having not bothered to register here, and from what I have been told are very indignant when the police come to call and tell them to get this sorted! However in the UK I understand that the law applied is that you gain residence from the moment you arrive if you have an address, and if your intent is to remain in the country.

So there are two things I am wondering about.

If my understanding is correct, is it immoral for an EU country to deport anyone that doesn't match this rule, i.e. overstays without means of support?

And why doesn't the UK use the same rule book?

Brownbear

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 6:05 am Post subject: Re: The three month rule

Bulgarianlily wrote:

And why doesn't the UK use the same rule book?

Firstly, the border control is completely incompetent, nobody has any idea who comes in, who leaves, anything.

Secondly, Blair and co had a policy of unrestricted immigration. He claimed it would stimulate the economy, I would contend it was to ensure that Britain continued as a low-wage economy for the benefit of all those large corporate donors.

Thirdly, anyone who questions uncontrolled immigration is a racist, Little Englander, Daily Mail reader. Everybody knows that.

Bulgarianlily

Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 1667
Location: South West Mountains of Bulgaria

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 6:18 am Post subject:

But if Bulgaria can manage to swipe your ID documents at the border, why can't the UK do the same, it takes a few seconds per person. The UK is not in the schengen zone so it has a perfect right to do this. Anytime we have contact with the local authorities we have to produce our long stay card and our card numbers go on every document we are involved with. They can see instantly that we are here legally.

Brownbear

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 6:26 am Post subject:
As I say, anyone in the UK who suggests such a thing is very quickly howled down as a racist. They may then be treated to a patronising homily about how enormously immigration enriches our culture, and reminded that the most-consumed restaurant dish in the country is made from ingredients sourced initially from the Indian subcontinent.

boisdevie1

Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3897
Location: Lancaster

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 6:54 am Post subject:
I live in France. I voluntarily decided to come here. I live by the rules that the French have set. It's their country. But I believe that if you move to another country you should be able to support yourself financially and have some grasp of the language.

snozzer

Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 296
Location: The Centre of Britian

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 7:00 am Post subject:

Brownbear wrote:

As I say, anyone in the UK who suggests such a thing is very quickly howled down as a racist. They may then be treated to a patronising homily about how enormously immigration enriches our culture, and reminded that the most-consumed restaurant dish in the country is made from ingredients sourced initially from the Indian subcontinent.

Well said and of course the world famous "Chicken Tikka Masala was invented in the UK"

toggle

Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 9:05 am Post subject: Re: The three month rule

Brownbear wrote:

Thirdly, anyone who questions uncontrolled immigration is a racist, Little Englander, Daily Mail reader. Everybody knows that.

wrong.

a lot orf the left question unrestricted immigration, they see it as a way to keep wages down and reduce the effectiveness of collective bargaining.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28229
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 9:31 am Post subject:
Is there anyone on the left with an "unrestricted immigration policy"? I think you would struggle to find that anywhere.

Brownbear

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 9:34 am Post subject:

jema wrote:

Is there anyone on the left with an "unrestricted immigration policy"? I think you would struggle to find that anywhere.

In the context of the EU, which is what the OP was talking about, what are the restrictions on ours, then?

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 9:39 am Post subject:

Bulgarianlily wrote:

We do swipe documents when people come in across borders, the problem is the people coming across borders without being detected and that people stay longer than they are legitimately allowed

neither of which swiping documents helps

Bulgarianlily

Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 1667
Location: South West Mountains of Bulgaria

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 10 12:58 pm Post subject:
https://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/rightsandresponsibilites/ This seems to say that to live in the UK you have to either have a job or be self supporting. The trouble is it doesn't say what happens if you are neither.

gofarmer

Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Bulgaria

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 11 6:59 am Post subject: 90 day rule

But even in Bulgaria they don't really enforce this and now that in the EU it does not really apply anyway. In theory if you are living here then you should get your long stay card so you have an ID card like the Bulgarians but certainly not deported if you don't.

I have a long stay card from when I lived here permanently. But my other half, who joined me later doesn't. We stay for around 4 to 5 months each year and drive here from France and apart from flashing our passports at the border, no-one does much else.

Of course we can't claim any benefits or anything.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 11 7:36 am Post subject:
I do now have British citizenship but speaking as a non eu immigrant, every single time I have entered or departed the UK on my SA passport, I have had my passport throroughly checked and stamped and more often than not been queastioned about where I live and what I do for a living and how long I intended to stay.

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