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jamanda
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Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35057
Location: Devon

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 12 1:38 pm Post subject:
I think if there was every school, shop and every other workplace in the country would pounce on them.

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 12 9:03 am Post subject:

sally_in_wales wrote:

With things like bandages and plasters, I might be tempted to double seal the packages, for example, put all the wrapped bandages and plasters inside something like a fresh gripseal bag and seal it down with the air squashed out. I think some of the sell-by date on plasters is a failsafe in case the packaging seals don't hold up well over time, and an extra wrap would help you feel confident that they remain clean and dry

I've been doing some digging (it seems to be a frequently asked question) and have found research that shows it's often handling that causes supplies to spoil rather than simply age.

So, I assume in something like a frequently opened medical kit things are not going to last. If I wanted to build up a few items at home then I'm not sure sealing them myself would work but buying small sealed boxes of things like plasters rather than buying a large box of plasters would be better.

I expect you could buy some double sealed long life items but they're bound to cost a fair bit more so there may not be much of a market for them.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4610
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 12 9:57 am Post subject:
I have bandages and wound dressings,from the late 50s early 60s,still in their blue paper packaging,from a Colliery first aid box,naturally if the package gets damaged,it could get contaminated,but if their kept in a separate box,as they would be in a first aid kit of this kind, I dont see what all the fuss is,you really are taking it to the full extreme.

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 12 10:07 am Post subject:

I'm not taking it to extreme at all, for that you should read some of the stuff I've looked at.

It's a bit like asking if some meat that's past it's sell by date is ok to eat. It some circumstances it's fine in others it could be dangerous, personally I would like some rational reasoning before being told something is fine.

Anyway, I think I've found what I'm looking for or at least what to search for.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 12 8:49 pm Post subject:
It can be done. Shell dressings have a very long usable life. The packets are much sturdier & the cost a bit steeper than standard dressings. This one has 5 years life. linky Available from HERE with a 2017 date

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 12 9:09 pm Post subject:
Thanks for the link, funnily enough that's what started me thinking about the dates as I planned to get a couple but I didn't know their shelf life. I'm going to order from these people: https://boundtree.co.uk/the-emergency-bandage-trauma-wound-dressing-4in Searching for vacuum packed kits also throws up a few.

Londonworms

Joined: 07 Sep 2012
Posts: 36
Location: London/Essex borders

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 12 11:01 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

A fair bit of what I have is well past it's use by date and as I don't know the exact reasons for those dates it seems reasonable not to want to use them.

The short answer is it's part of the Medical Devices Directive.

All products classed as medical devices, and that includes bandages and dressings, must meet certain criteria in their manufacturing and packaging processes. There's naturally a date beyond which the manufacturer won't be able to guarantee these standards will continue to be met in the packaging, even assuming the correct handling and storage conditions are met. They will only claim something is 'sterile' for example, up to a certain point in time, beyond which they're not prepared to guarantee it will remain so, regardless.

The other factor is things degrade over time. You could open a dressing that disintegrated into dust, depending on the state of packaging, seal, and storage conditions. It's happened

A lot of people in a home situation wouldn't be overly worried about a lot of this stuff. In a work or professional setting subject to inspection and regulation, it's a very different matter.

You can always recycle your out of date bandages to first aid trainers, who are always looking for this stuff. I cried the first time I bought bandages for people to practice with, when I remembered the amount of stuff I was forced to dump over the years.

frewen

Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 11405

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 12 7:48 am Post subject:

My take (for what its worth but dont take any of it as gospel)

Things that are medicated will degrade over time so I wouldn't keep medicated dressings (although I might keep them as a secondary pressure bandage and not for their original purpose).

Standard non medicated dressings and bandages I wouldn't worry about too much, as long as they haven't started to fall apart. If you wanted to and had a biscuit tin, time, crepe paper and cotton handkerchiefs, resterilise them using the oven.... but you'd have to google timings and temperatures. I say time because autoclaves use pressure, steam and really high temperatures to shorten the time taken to sterilise (calls to mind a pressure cooker there!). I have been tempted to try this "just because it is possible" - but then I get a bit carried away with an idea sometimes

Plasters don't last long around here so I haven't come across the loss of stickiness.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 12 8:52 am Post subject:
My take on the out of date stuff is to use it. The idea is that the injured party gets to hospital without dying. The hospital can then sort out any infection that might have been caused by an out of date item. What would you do if someone was bleeding out & you have no first aid kit? Yep that sweaty T shirt, sock or what ever your wearing but is covered in bacteria will do.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 12 1:09 pm Post subject:

On the same lines, does anyone keep that sealing spray for burns in their medical kit? I cannot remember the last time anyone needed it here but a friend showed me a very nasty burn - or it would have been if she hadn't sprayed it. Apparently it reduced the pain and it was clearly healing well.

The main problem I have with medical kits is remembering to use them. I don't think I have any antiseptic cream of any kind in ours. I do however have tea tree and lavender oil always available in the house which I have used at times.

toggle

Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 12 2:11 pm Post subject:

RichardW wrote:

My take on the out of date stuff is to use it.

The idea is that the injured party gets to hospital without dying. The hospital can then sort out any infection that might have been caused by an out of date item.

What would you do if someone was bleeding out & you have no first aid kit?

Yep that sweaty T shirt, sock or what ever your wearing but is covered in bacteria will do.

trauma nurse told me that the chances of someone getting infected from a non sterile dressing was low if they were bleeding heavily. this after he had wrapped someone's hand in their t shirt when they sliced it open on a beer glass.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 12 2:20 pm Post subject:

Cathryn wrote:

Funnily enough I've just purchased a couple of cooling burn dressings as I burn myself quite badly a while ago. I know you cool with water, and in the end I cooled my hand with dirty ditch water as the flesh wasn't broken but I thought a proper dressing would be a wise precaution.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I would use old dressings if that's all I had and I've used an old towel and kitchen paper to stem the flow of blood on a serious wound in the past but there comes a point when I'm happy to replace old dressings that are obviously showing their age.

As has been suggested I'll use some of the old dressings for training and try sterilising the ones that seem up to it.

Londonworms

Joined: 07 Sep 2012
Posts: 36
Location: London/Essex borders

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 12 2:22 pm Post subject:

Cathryn wrote:

I do however have tea tree and lavender oil always available in the house which I have used at times.

When I were a lad, my mum had two, count them, two, pieces of kit that saw us all safely through childhood and adolescence:

* a few gallons of Iodine

*Bread poulices for everything else

As for plasters - never heard of such things, let the air get at it

Gervase

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 12 3:14 pm Post subject:

Urine is good for burns, as it's sterile. Which puts a new slant on the dismissive "I wouldn't p*ss on X if s/he was on fire"!
As for dressings, I've seen med kits with dressings bearing pack dates as old as me. Provided they're stable and the packaging is intact, I wouldn't worry.
And if you're the sort who really does fret about a "use by" date on a dressing when faced with a sucking chest wound rather than reaching for a plastic bag and gaffer tape, perhaps first-aid isn't for you!

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 12 3:33 pm Post subject:

Gervase wrote:

Urine is good for burns, as it's sterile.

I wouldn't have thought it was that cooling. I thought it was ok for some jellyfish stings though?

As for fretting about dates, I would have thought by now it was clear I'm not - it seems to be everyone else that's fretting about me fretting.

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