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Downsizer Forum Index -> Energy Efficiency and Construction/Major Projects

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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46169
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 24 7:47 am Post subject:
at some point i may have used the word, that one, starts with H ttdntas, phoning the CEO from the void is sometimes far more effective than trying to interact with the minions in mundania

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28229
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 24 6:08 am Post subject:

Battery claims
June 22nd
Farasis Energy joining the list of semi solid-state batteries. This one with a 5000 life cycle to 70% and good temperature performance. The energy density is implied to be high. No mention of costs, manufacturing or time scales.

https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/farasis-energy-ev-battery-handles-22f-to-149f
_____________
June 17th
Production of the WeLion 360 wh/kg ( update 260 wh/kg at pack level) semi solid-state battery continues to increase. These are 150kwh batteries but at a $40,000 cost. I have no information on how that cost might reduce, but I'd invite people to consider that a 50kwh battery of this type would give a car a decent range and it is not at all unreasonable to assume volume production would halve costs.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/17/welion-sees-31-pct-increase-installations-may-2024/

Cycle life appears to be 20% degradation over 1000 cycles. That's not over impressive but 1000 x 50 x 5 e.g. a 50kwh battery getting 5 miles a kw would reach 250,000 miles which isn't terrible.

https://www.batterydesign.net/welion-she350-106ah/

_______
June 17th
TDK claim small solid-state batteries with 1000wh/l a 250% improvement on existing batteries.
Due to ceramic materials, the batteries are not considered scalable even to smart phone sizes.
https://www.ft.com/content/e33cb565-6d44-4f9a-9105-f3afc03aa732
_______
June 16th
Unigrid promise to double the energy density of LFP using sodium and existing battery production processes.

https://batteriesnews.com/unigrid-battery-announces-12-million-series-a-round/
_____________

June 15th
Throwing this in the mix as we care about batteries mostly because of range, but 20% better efficiency is the same as 20% better battery. It equally important and oft forgotten.
https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/lucid-ceo-air-efficiency-5-miles-per-kwh-no-one-else-is-even-close/
__________
June 15th
Still not good news of the 4860 front, still seems like an expensive impossible to repair battery undercut by third parties. Can a new head really defy reality and deliver a cheaper product by end of year when the competition is far from standing still?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-s-4680-battery-cells-are-still-not-good-enough-musk-dodged-investor-questions-235409.html

_______
June 14th
Latest study that suggests little damage is done fast charging a modern EV. It is not however split out by battery chemistry or charging to 100% rather than 80% and of course the data for fast charging remains sparse as few people regularly fast charge.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/impacts-of-fast-charging
______
June 14th
Another Factorial update superceding the June 7th article on them sampling cells to Mercedes. The aim is a 90kwh battery driving 600 miles range whilst being 30% less in weight and size.
https://newatlas.com/automotive/factorial-solid-state-battery-b-sample/
_________
June 13th
BYD and CATL both launching batteries with full 10 minute charging. This article also explains what 6C charging means.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/13/byd-catl-to-launch-battery-with-6c-fast-charging-report-says/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR25haQyf2IooRu0Pj8d_V31t5Rnba2WFPGYWb06ea-V-_jzemAb9DwJcnw_aem_AUtqiXQu31whVEkq-r5XSecoZTRzFfErg0M0BkOHnGfM23mpa-TK_0XIgfRFkYonu2XSqzMPqKtQJxM43H9dSGtW
______
June 13th
Liquid air energy storage plant being built in the UK. Claimed to be economical at scale. As ever this sort of development begs the question of what is "really" economic? Ripping coal from the ground in Wales was nicely economic for mine owners, but the slag heaps are not economic for us now. Lithium and Cobalt are also "nicely economic" and not the utter horror fossil fuel companies would have us believe, but even materials that will be recycled come at an environmental and social cost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crgg81j2xdpo
___________
June 13th
More environmentally friendly lithium extraction from dilute sources of lithium.
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/new-method-optimizes-lithium-extraction-from-seawater-and-groundwater-387665#:~:text=Scientists%20at%20the%20University%20of,and%20offshore%20oil%20drilling%20operations.
_______________
June 13th
High temperature sodium sulfur batteries for grid storage.
https://www.ess-news.com/2024/06/11/basf-ngk-launch-sodium-sulfur-battery-with-less-than-1-degradation-rate/
_____________
June 8th 2024
China invests in solid-state research. To me amidst the current rash of solid-state announcements touted incredible energy densities it is a portent of even more amazing things to come.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/China-Accelerates-Solid-State-Battery-Development-with-Government-Funding-Boost.html

______
June 4th 2024
Gotion annouces 10 minute charging technology ready for immediate mass production
https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/gotion-high-tech-ev-battery-fast-charge/
__________
June 3rd 2024
South Korean collaboration claims an aluminium oxide anode coating that helps with fast charging stability, though the numbers quoted are not striking me as anything special.
https://www.techexplorist.com/new-tech-ensures-stability-lithium-ion-batteries-under-fast-charging-conditions/84347/?utm_source=IM&utm_medium=IM&utm_id=IM&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR14db7n_bNptKIcjFnxGkf-C4P0bf2SVKWJpILsvm_cGUQX6fO8cZNkGR8_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

_________
31st May 2024
Claims that thermal energy storage is competitive with lithium ion, but an acknowledgement that battery prices are dropping this decade.

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/new-energy-storage-tech-poised-to-outcompete-lithium-ion-batteries-bnef/2-1-1651998
_____________
31st May 2024
2000 cycles from StoreDot on a silicon anode battery is a milestone event.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/storedot-battery-cycles-ev-milestone/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1LFoRzhLm2HbhrO4b9tJ3DwEP2C7WYmM7susaWL3Rg1-IMSdAg65cMc30_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

__________
29th May 2024
Lithium sulfur claiming 70% retention at 1000 cycles with a theoretical possible density of 500wh/kg.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/05/28/bringing-lithium-sulfur-batteries-closer-to-commercialization/
_________
28th May 2024
SAIC claim full solid state production by 2026
https://www.thedrive.com/news/chinas-saic-motor-says-itll-mass-produce-solid-state-ev-batteries-by-2026

________
24th May 2024
EV batteries are outlasting cars

https://www.theenergymix.com/ev-batteries-outlive-the-cars-as-degradation-concerns-begin-to-evaporate/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1_io4xwwd1cxUIDGG6Wk0wQ6QnT91kOQ9AhLMcRpyNVvBntukSlb0xMl8_aem_AY9uvzyFzOkJtvqBAI-37kE3FCykvf8hevHvJSbWovhLZPuQrcR3fpGIvSWyAgUsR_6NjEeWpGlsMluu-mE-GY73
____________
19th May 2024
Nitron energy more sodium batteries
https://newatlas.com/energy/natron-sodium-ion-battery-production-startt/

_________
19th May 2024
Zinc Lignin batteries have cheap cycle life, but only lead acid power densities.
https://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=63000#:~:text=Link%C3%B6ping%20University%20researchers%20created%20a,the%20journal%20Energy%20%26%20Environmental%20Materials.
_______________
19th May 2024
GWM claims solid-state pouch batteries
https://carnewschina.com/2024/05/10/gwm-gives-details-of-solid-state-battery-and-other-news-at-agm/

These are not at EV pack level yet.
_______^^

19th May 2024
Bedrock materials startup
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sodium-ion-battery-by-ex-Tesla-engineer-can-hit-300-mile-range-parity-with-LFP-cells-for-cheaper-EVs.838910.0.html

Claim of 300 mile sodium batteries receiving seed funding for production.
_____________
19th May 2024
https://www.electrive.com/2024/04/09/byd-to-prepare-market-launch-of-next-generation-blade-battery/
BYD releasing LFMP? batteries in August 2024. Claimed 190wh/kg density.
______________
19th May 2024
CATL announcing 205wh/kg LFP batteries
https://www.catl.com/en/news/6239.html#:~:text=At%20Auto%20China%202024%2C%20CATL,kilometers%20with%204C%20superfast%20charging.

______________
19th May 2024
First Sodium grid battery live in China.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/05/13/china-1st-large-sodium-battery-energy-storage-station-operation/
______________
19th May 2024
Toyota are building battery production in the USA.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-supercharges-north-carolina-battery-plant-with-new-8-billion-investment/

No mention of battery chemistry.

_______________
19th May 2024

Gotion High-tech LFMP
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/24/breakthrough-ev-battery-pack-could-last-2-million-kms-or-130-years-of-average-driving/

Claim of 240wh/kg at cell level and 4000 cycle, 2 million km lifetime.

________
19th May 2024
CATL 1.5 million km LFP battery, with zero degradation over 1000 cycles.
https://www.theenergymix.com/chinas-catl-unveils-1-5m-km-ev-battery-long-duration-storage-unit/

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28229
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 24 6:06 am Post subject:
https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/25/catl-batteries-to-power-electric-aircraft-3000-km/ Well that's a leap forward. I would not be buying shares in Boeing right now!

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45661
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 24 8:31 pm Post subject:
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/news/tarmac-trialling-all-electric-tipper-truck

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15936

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 24 7:02 am Post subject:
Interesting. I notice they don't seem to be doing more than trialing one of each type of vehicle at the moment, or if they have bought other types in any number it is not mentioned in the article. It seems larger vehicles are now possible, but logistics of requirement and distance/time between charging is still being worked out.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45661
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 24 7:53 am Post subject:

The problem in this case is I think there is very little incentive to switch, the vehicle itself fits the usage case very well. Also TEVVA (the manufacturer) has just come out of financial restructuring:

https://evfleetworld.co.uk/tevva-prepares-to-call-in-administrators-while-seeking-rescue-deal/

But government policy is the reason that so many UK EV startups have failed, and why uptake is not more rapid:

https://www.tevva.com/en/articles/five-actions-the-government-must-take-on-electric-trucks

Volvo (amongst others) has delivered quite a few:

https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/news-stories/press-releases/2024/jun/volvos-electric-trucks-reach-80-million-kilometers-in-five-years.html

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15936

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 24 8:21 am Post subject:

Unfortunately the UK has never been good at capitalising on this sort of thing. The present government is particularly bad. To decarbonise large transport like that and tractors, a lot of investment is going to be needed both by the companies/people concerned and also to provide the infrastructure to get the power they will need to perhaps remote places.

I know there is no way we could afford an electric tractor, nor could we charge one as we have only solar charging which is not very efficient in a wood.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28229
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 24 9:18 am Post subject:

Kind of a slow week

Battery claims
June 27th
Geely's new LFP battery claims 192wh/kg and a 50 year lifetime.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/27/geely-releases-aegis-short-blade-battery/
___________
June 26th
The CATL 500wh/kg condensed battery promises to power long range aircraft. An 8 tonne aircraft translates I guess to carrying 25 people. That's pretty "real" and undoubtedly would change aviation.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/25/catl-batteries-to-power-electric-aircraft-3000-km/
__________
June 22nd
Farasis Energy joining the list of semi solid-state batteries. This one with a 5000 life cycle to 70% and good temperature performance. The energy density is implied to be high. No mention of costs, manufacturing or time scales.

https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/farasis-energy-ev-battery-handles-22f-to-149f
_____________
June 17th
Production of the WeLion 360 wh/kg ( update 260 wh/kg at pack level) semi solid-state battery continues to increase. These are 150kwh batteries but at a $40,000 cost. I have no information on how that cost might reduce, but I'd invite people to consider that a 50kwh battery of this type would give a car a decent range and it is not at all unreasonable to assume volume production would halve costs.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/17/welion-sees-31-pct-increase-installations-may-2024/

Cycle life appears to be 20% degradation over 1000 cycles. That's not over impressive but 1000 x 50 x 5 e.g. a 50kwh battery getting 5 miles a kw would reach 250,000 miles which isn't terrible.

https://www.batterydesign.net/welion-she350-106ah/

_______
June 17th
TDK claim small solid-state batteries with 1000wh/l a 250% improvement on existing batteries.
Due to ceramic materials, the batteries are not considered scalable even to smart phone sizes.
https://www.ft.com/content/e33cb565-6d44-4f9a-9105-f3afc03aa732
_______
June 16th
Unigrid promise to double the energy density of LFP using sodium and existing battery production processes.

https://batteriesnews.com/unigrid-battery-announces-12-million-series-a-round/
_____________

June 15th
Throwing this in the mix as we care about batteries mostly because of range, but 20% better efficiency is the same as 20% better battery. It equally important and oft forgotten.
https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/lucid-ceo-air-efficiency-5-miles-per-kwh-no-one-else-is-even-close/
__________
June 15th
Still not good news of the 4860 front, still seems like an expensive impossible to repair battery undercut by third parties. Can a new head really defy reality and deliver a cheaper product by end of year when the competition is far from standing still?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-s-4680-battery-cells-are-still-not-good-enough-musk-dodged-investor-questions-235409.html

_______
June 14th
Latest study that suggests little damage is done fast charging a modern EV. It is not however split out by battery chemistry or charging to 100% rather than 80% and of course the data for fast charging remains sparse as few people regularly fast charge.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/impacts-of-fast-charging
______
June 14th
Another Factorial update superceding the June 7th article on them sampling cells to Mercedes. The aim is a 90kwh battery driving 600 miles range whilst being 30% less in weight and size.
https://newatlas.com/automotive/factorial-solid-state-battery-b-sample/
_________
June 13th
BYD and CATL both launching batteries with full 10 minute charging. This article also explains what 6C charging means.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/13/byd-catl-to-launch-battery-with-6c-fast-charging-report-says/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR25haQyf2IooRu0Pj8d_V31t5Rnba2WFPGYWb06ea-V-_jzemAb9DwJcnw_aem_AUtqiXQu31whVEkq-r5XSecoZTRzFfErg0M0BkOHnGfM23mpa-TK_0XIgfRFkYonu2XSqzMPqKtQJxM43H9dSGtW
______
June 13th
Liquid air energy storage plant being built in the UK. Claimed to be economical at scale. As ever this sort of development begs the question of what is "really" economic? Ripping coal from the ground in Wales was nicely economic for mine owners, but the slag heaps are not economic for us now. Lithium and Cobalt are also "nicely economic" and not the utter horror fossil fuel companies would have us believe, but even materials that will be recycled come at an environmental and social cost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crgg81j2xdpo
___________
June 13th
More environmentally friendly lithium extraction from dilute sources of lithium.
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/new-method-optimizes-lithium-extraction-from-seawater-and-groundwater-387665#:~:text=Scientists%20at%20the%20University%20of,and%20offshore%20oil%20drilling%20operations.
_______________
June 13th
High temperature sodium sulfur batteries for grid storage.
https://www.ess-news.com/2024/06/11/basf-ngk-launch-sodium-sulfur-battery-with-less-than-1-degradation-rate/
_____________
June 8th 2024
China invests in solid-state research. To me amidst the current rash of solid-state announcements touted incredible energy densities it is a portent of even more amazing things to come.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/China-Accelerates-Solid-State-Battery-Development-with-Government-Funding-Boost.html

______
June 4th 2024
Gotion annouces 10 minute charging technology ready for immediate mass production
https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/gotion-high-tech-ev-battery-fast-charge/
__________
June 3rd 2024
South Korean collaboration claims an aluminium oxide anode coating that helps with fast charging stability, though the numbers quoted are not striking me as anything special.
https://www.techexplorist.com/new-tech-ensures-stability-lithium-ion-batteries-under-fast-charging-conditions/84347/?utm_source=IM&utm_medium=IM&utm_id=IM&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR14db7n_bNptKIcjFnxGkf-C4P0bf2SVKWJpILsvm_cGUQX6fO8cZNkGR8_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

_________
31st May 2024
Claims that thermal energy storage is competitive with lithium ion, but an acknowledgement that battery prices are dropping this decade.

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/new-energy-storage-tech-poised-to-outcompete-lithium-ion-batteries-bnef/2-1-1651998
_____________
31st May 2024
2000 cycles from StoreDot on a silicon anode battery is a milestone event.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/storedot-battery-cycles-ev-milestone/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1LFoRzhLm2HbhrO4b9tJ3DwEP2C7WYmM7susaWL3Rg1-IMSdAg65cMc30_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

__________
29th May 2024
Lithium sulfur claiming 70% retention at 1000 cycles with a theoretical possible density of 500wh/kg.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/05/28/bringing-lithium-sulfur-batteries-closer-to-commercialization/
_________
28th May 2024
SAIC claim full solid state production by 2026
https://www.thedrive.com/news/chinas-saic-motor-says-itll-mass-produce-solid-state-ev-batteries-by-2026

________
24th May 2024
EV batteries are outlasting cars

https://www.theenergymix.com/ev-batteries-outlive-the-cars-as-degradation-concerns-begin-to-evaporate/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1_io4xwwd1cxUIDGG6Wk0wQ6QnT91kOQ9AhLMcRpyNVvBntukSlb0xMl8_aem_AY9uvzyFzOkJtvqBAI-37kE3FCykvf8hevHvJSbWovhLZPuQrcR3fpGIvSWyAgUsR_6NjEeWpGlsMluu-mE-GY73
____________
19th May 2024
Nitron energy more sodium batteries
https://newatlas.com/energy/natron-sodium-ion-battery-production-startt/

_________
19th May 2024
Zinc Lignin batteries have cheap cycle life, but only lead acid power densities.
https://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=63000#:~:text=Link%C3%B6ping%20University%20researchers%20created%20a,the%20journal%20Energy%20%26%20Environmental%20Materials.
_______________
19th May 2024
GWM claims solid-state pouch batteries
https://carnewschina.com/2024/05/10/gwm-gives-details-of-solid-state-battery-and-other-news-at-agm/

These are not at EV pack level yet.
_______^^

19th May 2024
Bedrock materials startup
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sodium-ion-battery-by-ex-Tesla-engineer-can-hit-300-mile-range-parity-with-LFP-cells-for-cheaper-EVs.838910.0.html

Claim of 300 mile sodium batteries receiving seed funding for production.
_____________
19th May 2024
https://www.electrive.com/2024/04/09/byd-to-prepare-market-launch-of-next-generation-blade-battery/
BYD releasing LFMP? batteries in August 2024. Claimed 190wh/kg density.
______________
19th May 2024
CATL announcing 205wh/kg LFP batteries
https://www.catl.com/en/news/6239.html#:~:text=At%20Auto%20China%202024%2C%20CATL,kilometers%20with%204C%20superfast%20charging.

______________
19th May 2024
First Sodium grid battery live in China.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/05/13/china-1st-large-sodium-battery-energy-storage-station-operation/
______________
19th May 2024
Toyota are building battery production in the USA.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-supercharges-north-carolina-battery-plant-with-new-8-billion-investment/

No mention of battery chemistry.

_______________
19th May 2024

Gotion High-tech LFMP
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/24/breakthrough-ev-battery-pack-could-last-2-million-kms-or-130-years-of-average-driving/

Claim of 240wh/kg at cell level and 4000 cycle, 2 million km lifetime.

________
19th May 2024
CATL 1.5 million km LFP battery, with zero degradation over 1000 cycles.
https://www.theenergymix.com/chinas-catl-unveils-1-5m-km-ev-battery-long-duration-storage-unit/

________
19th May 2024
LM motors Semi solid-state EV production.
https://carnewschina.com/2024/04/15/im-l6-with-semi-solid-state-battery-to-launch-may-13/

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45661
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 24 9:16 am Post subject:
Real life usage by a Scottish farm: https://www.speakev.com/threads/scottish-organic-farm-cuts-33-tonnes-of-co2-by-using-electric-vans.185776/

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8882
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 24 11:40 am Post subject:
That sounds like Mossgiel Farm, just outside Mauchline near here.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46169
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 24 1:15 pm Post subject:

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28229
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 24 11:13 am Post subject:

Battery claims
July 3rd
Sunwoda's claims are notable for touting 700wh/kg in 2027. Plus of course it is yet another solid-state battery. The price claims are prohibitive at the moment though.

https://www.arenaev.com/solidstate_batteries_to_become_considerably_cheaper_in_2026-news-3692.php
_________
July 3rd
Promise of cheaper redox flow batteries without vanadium for grid storage.
https://interestingengineering.com/science/vanadium-free-redox-battery
_________
July 3rd
SAKUU PCC cheap high density solid state 370wh/kg using a lot less packaging. Not so great on cycle life, but game changing. But on the subject of life cycle a 1000 lifetime might be poor, but in a 400 range car thats 400,000 miles. It really wouldn't matter that much if it was 500 cycles!

Sorry for the youtube link, it's all I have right now.
https://youtu.be/yZhKqpleAXM?si=HLU_aSgaPLIUbddr
______________
July 1st
Iron flow batteries are a very different kind of battery unsuitable for anything other than grid storage, but with massive potential.
https://thenextweb.com/news/iron-flow-battery-ess-schiphol-airport-technology-startup
_______
July 1st
Toshiba SCIB batteries to be released in 2025 promise fast charging and 10,000 80% cycle life.
https://www.global.toshiba/ww/products-solutions/battery/scib/next/nb.html
_______
June 27th
Geely's new LFP battery claims 192wh/kg and a 50 year lifetime.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/27/geely-releases-aegis-short-blade-battery/
___________
June 26th
The CATL 500wh/kg condensed battery promises to power long range aircraft. An 8 tonne aircraft translates I guess to carrying 25 people. That's pretty "real" and undoubtedly would change aviation.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/25/catl-batteries-to-power-electric-aircraft-3000-km/
__________
June 22nd
Farasis Energy joining the list of semi solid-state batteries. This one with a 5000 life cycle to 70% and good temperature performance. The energy density is implied to be high. No mention of costs, manufacturing or time scales.

https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/farasis-energy-ev-battery-handles-22f-to-149f
_____________
June 17th
Production of the WeLion 360 wh/kg ( update 260 wh/kg at pack level) semi solid-state battery continues to increase. These are 150kwh batteries but at a $40,000 cost. I have no information on how that cost might reduce, but I'd invite people to consider that a 50kwh battery of this type would give a car a decent range and it is not at all unreasonable to assume volume production would halve costs.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/17/welion-sees-31-pct-increase-installations-may-2024/

Cycle life appears to be 20% degradation over 1000 cycles. That's not over impressive but 1000 x 50 x 5 e.g. a 50kwh battery getting 5 miles a kw would reach 250,000 miles which isn't terrible.

https://www.batterydesign.net/welion-she350-106ah/

_______
June 17th
TDK claim small solid-state batteries with 1000wh/l a 250% improvement on existing batteries.
Due to ceramic materials, the batteries are not considered scalable even to smart phone sizes.
https://www.ft.com/content/e33cb565-6d44-4f9a-9105-f3afc03aa732
_______
June 16th
Unigrid promise to double the energy density of LFP using sodium and existing battery production processes.

https://batteriesnews.com/unigrid-battery-announces-12-million-series-a-round/
_____________

June 15th
Throwing this in the mix as we care about batteries mostly because of range, but 20% better efficiency is the same as 20% better battery. It equally important and oft forgotten.
https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/lucid-ceo-air-efficiency-5-miles-per-kwh-no-one-else-is-even-close/
__________
June 15th
Still not good news of the 4860 front, still seems like an expensive impossible to repair battery undercut by third parties. Can a new head really defy reality and deliver a cheaper product by end of year when the competition is far from standing still?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-s-4680-battery-cells-are-still-not-good-enough-musk-dodged-investor-questions-235409.html

_______
June 14th
Latest study that suggests little damage is done fast charging a modern EV. It is not however split out by battery chemistry or charging to 100% rather than 80% and of course the data for fast charging remains sparse as few people regularly fast charge.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/impacts-of-fast-charging
______
June 14th
Another Factorial update superceding the June 7th article on them sampling cells to Mercedes. The aim is a 90kwh battery driving 600 miles range whilst being 30% less in weight and size.
https://newatlas.com/automotive/factorial-solid-state-battery-b-sample/
_________
June 13th
BYD and CATL both launching batteries with full 10 minute charging. This article also explains what 6C charging means.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/13/byd-catl-to-launch-battery-with-6c-fast-charging-report-says/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR25haQyf2IooRu0Pj8d_V31t5Rnba2WFPGYWb06ea-V-_jzemAb9DwJcnw_aem_AUtqiXQu31whVEkq-r5XSecoZTRzFfErg0M0BkOHnGfM23mpa-TK_0XIgfRFkYonu2XSqzMPqKtQJxM43H9dSGtW
______
June 13th
Liquid air energy storage plant being built in the UK. Claimed to be economical at scale. As ever this sort of development begs the question of what is "really" economic? Ripping coal from the ground in Wales was nicely economic for mine owners, but the slag heaps are not economic for us now. Lithium and Cobalt are also "nicely economic" and not the utter horror fossil fuel companies would have us believe, but even materials that will be recycled come at an environmental and social cost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crgg81j2xdpo
___________
June 13th
More environmentally friendly lithium extraction from dilute sources of lithium.
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/new-method-optimizes-lithium-extraction-from-seawater-and-groundwater-387665#:~:text=Scientists%20at%20the%20University%20of,and%20offshore%20oil%20drilling%20operations.
_______________
June 13th
High temperature sodium sulfur batteries for grid storage.
https://www.ess-news.com/2024/06/11/basf-ngk-launch-sodium-sulfur-battery-with-less-than-1-degradation-rate/
_____________
June 8th 2024
China invests in solid-state research. To me amidst the current rash of solid-state announcements touted incredible energy densities it is a portent of even more amazing things to come.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/China-Accelerates-Solid-State-Battery-Development-with-Government-Funding-Boost.html

______
June 4th 2024
Gotion annouces 10 minute charging technology ready for immediate mass production
https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/gotion-high-tech-ev-battery-fast-charge/
__________
June 3rd 2024
South Korean collaboration claims an aluminium oxide anode coating that helps with fast charging stability, though the numbers quoted are not striking me as anything special.
https://www.techexplorist.com/new-tech-ensures-stability-lithium-ion-batteries-under-fast-charging-conditions/84347/?utm_source=IM&utm_medium=IM&utm_id=IM&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR14db7n_bNptKIcjFnxGkf-C4P0bf2SVKWJpILsvm_cGUQX6fO8cZNkGR8_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

_________
31st May 2024
Claims that thermal energy storage is competitive with lithium ion, but an acknowledgement that battery prices are dropping this decade.

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/new-energy-storage-tech-poised-to-outcompete-lithium-ion-batteries-bnef/2-1-1651998
_____________
31st May 2024
2000 cycles from StoreDot on a silicon anode battery is a milestone event.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/storedot-battery-cycles-ev-milestone/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1LFoRzhLm2HbhrO4b9tJ3DwEP2C7WYmM7susaWL3Rg1-IMSdAg65cMc30_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

__________
29th May 2024
Lithium sulfur claiming 70% retention at 1000 cycles with a theoretical possible density of 500wh/kg.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/05/28/bringing-lithium-sulfur-batteries-closer-to-commercialization/
_________
28th May 2024
SAIC claim full solid state production by 2026
https://www.thedrive.com/news/chinas-saic-motor-says-itll-mass-produce-solid-state-ev-batteries-by-2026

________
24th May 2024
EV batteries are outlasting cars

https://www.theenergymix.com/ev-batteries-outlive-the-cars-as-degradation-concerns-begin-to-evaporate/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1_io4xwwd1cxUIDGG6Wk0wQ6QnT91kOQ9AhLMcRpyNVvBntukSlb0xMl8_aem_AY9uvzyFzOkJtvqBAI-37kE3FCykvf8hevHvJSbWovhLZPuQrcR3fpGIvSWyAgUsR_6NjEeWpGlsMluu-mE-GY73
____________
19th May 2024
Nitron energy more sodium batteries
https://newatlas.com/energy/natron-sodium-ion-battery-production-startt/

_________
19th May 2024
Zinc Lignin batteries have cheap cycle life, but only lead acid power densities.
https://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=63000#:~:text=Link%C3%B6ping%20University%20researchers%20created%20a,the%20journal%20Energy%20%26%20Environmental%20Materials.
_______________
19th May 2024
GWM claims solid-state pouch batteries
https://carnewschina.com/2024/05/10/gwm-gives-details-of-solid-state-battery-and-other-news-at-agm/

These are not at EV pack level yet.
_______^^

19th May 2024
Bedrock materials startup
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sodium-ion-battery-by-ex-Tesla-engineer-can-hit-300-mile-range-parity-with-LFP-cells-for-cheaper-EVs.838910.0.html

Claim of 300 mile sodium batteries receiving seed funding for production.
_____________
19th May 2024
https://www.electrive.com/2024/04/09/byd-to-prepare-market-launch-of-next-generation-blade-battery/
BYD releasing LFMP? batteries in August 2024. Claimed 190wh/kg density.
______________
19th May 2024
CATL announcing 205wh/kg LFP batteries
https://www.catl.com/en/news/6239.html#:~:text=At%20Auto%20China%202024%2C%20CATL,kilometers%20with%204C%20superfast%20charging.

______________
19th May 2024
First Sodium grid battery live in China.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/05/13/china-1st-large-sodium-battery-energy-storage-station-operation/
______________
19th May 2024
Toyota are building battery production in the USA.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-supercharges-north-carolina-battery-plant-with-new-8-billion-investment/

No mention of battery chemistry.

_______________
19th May 2024

Gotion High-tech LFMP
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/24/breakthrough-ev-battery-pack-could-last-2-million-kms-or-130-years-of-average-driving/

Claim of 240wh/kg at cell level and 4000 cycle, 2 million km lifetime.

________
19th May 2024
CATL 1.5 million km LFP battery, with zero degradation over 1000 cycles.
https://www.theenergymix.com/chinas-catl-unveils-1-5m-km-ev-battery-long-duration-storage-unit/

________
19th May 2024
LM motors Semi solid-state EV production.
https://carnewschina.com/2024/04/15/im-l6-with-semi-solid-state-battery-to-launch-may-13/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46169
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 24 4:32 pm Post subject:

re vanadium, plenty of it around

not as mineral to mine but in petcoke to be upcycled

"spare"petcoke is available in massive amounts

it is cheap if you buy a million tons at a time

some of it is the richest "ore" for vanadium, molybdenum, and several other "rare" metals compared to almost anything that could be mined economically

a fraction of what is in heaps would be enough for a world of trace addition to batteries forever if the batteries get recycled

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28229
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 24 1:06 pm Post subject:

Battery claims
July 12th
MG offering a lifetime unlimited mileage battery and drivetrain warranty, only in Thailand at this point.
https://ev-a2z.com/news/mg-shakes-up-ev-market-with-industry-first-lifetime-battery-warranty/?amp=1&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1BuAqOyN9WdCFYsgczy4SJvMwln1m6bwm5Pg0PK-4XhPrsL08m7X2hbXs_aem_k_5gbIotmwqQnDS5x_hgkQ
____________
July 11th
Buying with a reliable idea of battery health is important to a mature used market.
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/proof-of-used-ev-battery-quality-should-be-down-to-car-companies-and-dealers-aviloo/304741
__________^_
July 8th
USTC claims solid-state state with anode materials a fraction of the price of Lithium Sulfide, reducing battery cost to 10% of cuurent solid-state batteries.

https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/china-low-cost-solid-state-battery-innovation

__________
July 3rd
Sunwoda's claims are notable for touting 700wh/kg in 2027. Plus of course it is yet another solid-state battery. The price claims are prohibitive at the moment though.

https://www.arenaev.com/solidstate_batteries_to_become_considerably_cheaper_in_2026-news-3692.php
_________
July 3rd
Promise of cheaper redox flow batteries without vanadium for grid storage.
https://interestingengineering.com/science/vanadium-free-redox-battery
_________
July 3rd
SAKUU PCC cheap high density solid state 370wh/kg using a lot less packaging. Not so great on cycle life, but game changing. But on the subject of life cycle a 1000 lifetime might be poor, but in a 400 range car thats 400,000 miles. It really wouldn't matter that much if it was 500 cycles!

Sorry for the youtube link, it's all I have right now.
https://youtu.be/yZhKqpleAXM?si=HLU_aSgaPLIUbddr
______________
July 1st
Iron flow batteries are a very different kind of battery unsuitable for anything other than grid storage, but with massive potential.
https://thenextweb.com/news/iron-flow-battery-ess-schiphol-airport-technology-startup
_______
July 1st
Toshiba SCIB batteries to be released in 2025 promise fast charging and 10,000 80% cycle life.
https://www.global.toshiba/ww/products-solutions/battery/scib/next/nb.html
_______
June 27th
Geely's new LFP battery claims 192wh/kg and a 50 year lifetime.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/27/geely-releases-aegis-short-blade-battery/
___________
June 26th
The CATL 500wh/kg condensed battery promises to power long range aircraft. An 8 tonne aircraft translates I guess to carrying 25 people. That's pretty "real" and undoubtedly would change aviation.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/25/catl-batteries-to-power-electric-aircraft-3000-km/
__________
June 22nd
Farasis Energy joining the list of semi solid-state batteries. This one with a 5000 life cycle to 70% and good temperature performance. The energy density is implied to be high. No mention of costs, manufacturing or time scales.

https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/farasis-energy-ev-battery-handles-22f-to-149f
_____________
June 17th
Production of the WeLion 360 wh/kg ( update 260 wh/kg at pack level) semi solid-state battery continues to increase. These are 150kwh batteries but at a $40,000 cost. I have no information on how that cost might reduce, but I'd invite people to consider that a 50kwh battery of this type would give a car a decent range and it is not at all unreasonable to assume volume production would halve costs.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/17/welion-sees-31-pct-increase-installations-may-2024/

Cycle life appears to be 20% degradation over 1000 cycles. That's not over impressive but 1000 x 50 x 5 e.g. a 50kwh battery getting 5 miles a kw would reach 250,000 miles which isn't terrible.

https://www.batterydesign.net/welion-she350-106ah/

_______
June 17th
TDK claim small solid-state batteries with 1000wh/l a 250% improvement on existing batteries.
Due to ceramic materials, the batteries are not considered scalable even to smart phone sizes.
https://www.ft.com/content/e33cb565-6d44-4f9a-9105-f3afc03aa732
_______
June 16th
Unigrid promise to double the energy density of LFP using sodium and existing battery production processes.

https://batteriesnews.com/unigrid-battery-announces-12-million-series-a-round/
_____________

June 15th
Throwing this in the mix as we care about batteries mostly because of range, but 20% better efficiency is the same as 20% better battery. It equally important and oft forgotten.
https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/lucid-ceo-air-efficiency-5-miles-per-kwh-no-one-else-is-even-close/
__________
June 15th
Still not good news of the 4860 front, still seems like an expensive impossible to repair battery undercut by third parties. Can a new head really defy reality and deliver a cheaper product by end of year when the competition is far from standing still?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-s-4680-battery-cells-are-still-not-good-enough-musk-dodged-investor-questions-235409.html

_______
June 14th
Latest study that suggests little damage is done fast charging a modern EV. It is not however split out by battery chemistry or charging to 100% rather than 80% and of course the data for fast charging remains sparse as few people regularly fast charge.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/impacts-of-fast-charging
______
June 14th
Another Factorial update superceding the June 7th article on them sampling cells to Mercedes. The aim is a 90kwh battery driving 600 miles range whilst being 30% less in weight and size.
https://newatlas.com/automotive/factorial-solid-state-battery-b-sample/
_________
June 13th
BYD and CATL both launching batteries with full 10 minute charging. This article also explains what 6C charging means.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/13/byd-catl-to-launch-battery-with-6c-fast-charging-report-says/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR25haQyf2IooRu0Pj8d_V31t5Rnba2WFPGYWb06ea-V-_jzemAb9DwJcnw_aem_AUtqiXQu31whVEkq-r5XSecoZTRzFfErg0M0BkOHnGfM23mpa-TK_0XIgfRFkYonu2XSqzMPqKtQJxM43H9dSGtW
______
June 13th
Liquid air energy storage plant being built in the UK. Claimed to be economical at scale. As ever this sort of development begs the question of what is "really" economic? Ripping coal from the ground in Wales was nicely economic for mine owners, but the slag heaps are not economic for us now. Lithium and Cobalt are also "nicely economic" and not the utter horror fossil fuel companies would have us believe, but even materials that will be recycled come at an environmental and social cost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crgg81j2xdpo
___________
June 13th
More environmentally friendly lithium extraction from dilute sources of lithium.
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/new-method-optimizes-lithium-extraction-from-seawater-and-groundwater-387665#:~:text=Scientists%20at%20the%20University%20of,and%20offshore%20oil%20drilling%20operations.
_______________
June 13th
High temperature sodium sulfur batteries for grid storage.
https://www.ess-news.com/2024/06/11/basf-ngk-launch-sodium-sulfur-battery-with-less-than-1-degradation-rate/
_____________
June 8th 2024
China invests in solid-state research. To me amidst the current rash of solid-state announcements touted incredible energy densities it is a portent of even more amazing things to come.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/China-Accelerates-Solid-State-Battery-Development-with-Government-Funding-Boost.html

______
June 4th 2024
Gotion annouces 10 minute charging technology ready for immediate mass production
https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/gotion-high-tech-ev-battery-fast-charge/
__________
June 3rd 2024
South Korean collaboration claims an aluminium oxide anode coating that helps with fast charging stability, though the numbers quoted are not striking me as anything special.
https://www.techexplorist.com/new-tech-ensures-stability-lithium-ion-batteries-under-fast-charging-conditions/84347/?utm_source=IM&utm_medium=IM&utm_id=IM&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR14db7n_bNptKIcjFnxGkf-C4P0bf2SVKWJpILsvm_cGUQX6fO8cZNkGR8_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

_________
31st May 2024
Claims that thermal energy storage is competitive with lithium ion, but an acknowledgement that battery prices are dropping this decade.

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/new-energy-storage-tech-poised-to-outcompete-lithium-ion-batteries-bnef/2-1-1651998
_____________
31st May 2024
2000 cycles from StoreDot on a silicon anode battery is a milestone event.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/storedot-battery-cycles-ev-milestone/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1LFoRzhLm2HbhrO4b9tJ3DwEP2C7WYmM7susaWL3Rg1-IMSdAg65cMc30_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

__________
29th May 2024
Lithium sulfur claiming 70% retention at 1000 cycles with a theoretical possible density of 500wh/kg.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/05/28/bringing-lithium-sulfur-batteries-closer-to-commercialization/
_________
28th May 2024
SAIC claim full solid state production by 2026
https://www.thedrive.com/news/chinas-saic-motor-says-itll-mass-produce-solid-state-ev-batteries-by-2026

________
24th May 2024
EV batteries are outlasting cars

https://www.theenergymix.com/ev-batteries-outlive-the-cars-as-degradation-concerns-begin-to-evaporate/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1_io4xwwd1cxUIDGG6Wk0wQ6QnT91kOQ9AhLMcRpyNVvBntukSlb0xMl8_aem_AY9uvzyFzOkJtvqBAI-37kE3FCykvf8hevHvJSbWovhLZPuQrcR3fpGIvSWyAgUsR_6NjEeWpGlsMluu-mE-GY73
____________
19th May 2024
Nitron energy more sodium batteries
https://newatlas.com/energy/natron-sodium-ion-battery-production-startt/

_________
19th May 2024
Zinc Lignin batteries have cheap cycle life, but only lead acid power densities.
https://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=63000#:~:text=Link%C3%B6ping%20University%20researchers%20created%20a,the%20journal%20Energy%20%26%20Environmental%20Materials.
_______________
19th May 2024
GWM claims solid-state pouch batteries
https://carnewschina.com/2024/05/10/gwm-gives-details-of-solid-state-battery-and-other-news-at-agm/

These are not at EV pack level yet.
_______^^

19th May 2024
Bedrock materials startup
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sodium-ion-battery-by-ex-Tesla-engineer-can-hit-300-mile-range-parity-with-LFP-cells-for-cheaper-EVs.838910.0.html

Claim of 300 mile sodium batteries receiving seed funding for production.
_____________
19th May 2024
https://www.electrive.com/2024/04/09/byd-to-prepare-market-launch-of-next-generation-blade-battery/
BYD releasing LFMP? batteries in August 2024. Claimed 190wh/kg density.
______________
19th May 2024
CATL announcing 205wh/kg LFP batteries
https://www.catl.com/en/news/6239.html#:~:text=At%20Auto%20China%202024%2C%20CATL,kilometers%20with%204C%20superfast%20charging.

______________
19th May 2024
First Sodium grid battery live in China.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/05/13/china-1st-large-sodium-battery-energy-storage-station-operation/
______________
19th May 2024
Toyota are building battery production in the USA.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-supercharges-north-carolina-battery-plant-with-new-8-billion-investment/

No mention of battery chemistry.

_______________
19th May 2024

Gotion High-tech LFMP
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/24/breakthrough-ev-battery-pack-could-last-2-million-kms-or-130-years-of-average-driving/

Claim of 240wh/kg at cell level and 4000 cycle, 2 million km lifetime.

________
19th May 2024
CATL 1.5 million km LFP battery, with zero degradation over 1000 cycles.
https://www.theenergymix.com/chinas-catl-unveils-1-5m-km-ev-battery-long-duration-storage-unit/

________
19th May 2024
LM motors Semi solid-state EV production.
https://carnewschina.com/2024/04/15/im-l6-with-semi-solid-state-battery-to-launch-may-13/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46169
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 24 2:04 pm Post subject:
the MG lifetime deal does look a good selling point if the battery and drive are that long-lasting, even if the rest of it is beyond economical repair, they could be repurposed at scrappage time

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