Knotweed as Biomass

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Knotweed as Biomass
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Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon May 26, 14 12:02 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

i recon the rules might prevent what seems sensible

when it is growing tis very wet so mincing it and digesting seems possible but tis also very rot proof so it might kill the digester bugs

Something must digest it else all that has grown so far would still be with us.
I reckon it is worth the experiment... I'll put it on the list.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46193
Location: yes

Posted: Mon May 26, 14 6:34 pm Post subject:
the stalks will burn when dried (late autumn) and seem also to rot from that state the roots seem indestructible

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon May 26, 14 7:21 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

the roots seem indestructible

What have you tried?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46193
Location: yes

Posted: Mon May 26, 14 9:49 pm Post subject:
poison,burning in situ ,drowning

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon May 26, 14 9:54 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

poison,burning in situ ,drowning

Drowning?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46193
Location: yes

Posted: Mon May 26, 14 9:56 pm Post subject:
a while in a barrel of water didnt kill it

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon May 26, 14 10:20 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

a while in a barrel of water didnt kill it

Killing it off is a separate issue: it isn't going to come out of the digester alive.

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Tue May 27, 14 5:02 am Post subject:

My son works for a small company that specializes in eradicating knotweed. It's a very expensive business and they use potent chemicals in conjunction with mechanical removal to get rid of it (digging out and sifting soil down to a couple of metres). They also do work for Network Rail (but I'm sure they don't leave it lying around).
Some people might get a little alarmed living next to a knotweed 'plantation' -mortgage providers in particular.
But you're right about its potential in terms of growth.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue May 27, 14 8:46 am Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

Some people might get a little alarmed living next to a knotweed 'plantation'...

There is no suggestion that it should be planted, or even that existing infestations should not be poisoned, only that where there is one, here is a potentially useful means of disposing of it.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46193
Location: yes

Posted: Tue May 27, 14 9:54 am Post subject:

a place to start with digesting it if it either kills normal digester bugs or refuses to ferment might be mince it and try various bacteria ,fungi,yeasts to give a "soup" ready for the methane producing bacteria

iirc part of it's toxicity is oxalic acid so either making that insoluble chemically or denaturing it by some means or reducing it by leeching might help.leeching would have issues of a lot of oxalic acid solution

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46193
Location: yes

Posted: Tue May 27, 14 12:05 pm Post subject:
some ingredients this might give you some ideas as to how to overcome the problems of digesting the stuff

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15951

Posted: Wed May 28, 14 8:38 am Post subject:
That's very interesting Dpack. Looks like it might be useful. The acid could be neutralised by using an alkali such as bicarbonate or carbonate of soda (washing soda), or small amounts of sodium or potassium hydroxide. That should produce an oxalate which perhaps won't be as harmful to the bugs.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed May 28, 14 8:55 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

The acid could be neutralised by using an alkali such as bicarbonate or carbonate of soda (washing soda), or small amounts of sodium or potassium hydroxide.

Throw in some biodiesel waste: it is mostly a mix of glycerol and hydroxide. The glycerol is known to be beneficial to the digestion already and there is no shortage of it.

oldish chris

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport

Posted: Wed May 28, 14 8:55 am Post subject:

Its a definite non-starter. For industrial scale production there are other plants, e.g. willow, that can be propagated, for ad-hoc small scale, any old plant will do, and can be composted using the existing municipal schemes.

Japanese knot-weed isn't particularly productive, it uses the same old photosynthesis as all the other plants. Just, unlike all the other plants, it doesn't get chomped by the myriads of insects that eat everything else (starting with my cabbages

). (A sycamore next to your house would do as much damage.)

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed May 28, 14 9:07 am Post subject:

oldish chris wrote:

Yes, but the point is, if you already have a patch of knotweed, then why not put it to good use?

What do those who's business it is to get rid of it do with it currently?

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