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Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15891

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 24 7:31 am Post subject:
I wouldn't think it would be recorded separately as energy bills aren't broken down that far. The only way to tell would be by the increase in the cost.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9831
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 24 8:49 am Post subject:

I wonder how people in house shares sort it out. You know.. if one has an Ev.

I assume the etiquette for visiting guests is they charge at your home and no one mentions it.

it seems quite different to PV panels - people get them installed and start telling you to the fraction how much the generated, how much they saved etc, yet with EVs it seems they don't know the actual figures. I mean I spose they must know that their bills have gone up by X and that is less than Y they would have spent on petrol... (one hopes)
But I would want to know. and I never trust the theoretical figures... because they make assumptions and generalisms that don't apply to me, plus the manufacturers tendency to err on the generous side
a quick google tells me that there are several apps that can record the EV charging costs, i would be all over that with a spreadsheet and everything!
(this from a woman that has a spreadsheet for her log stores - well I know how long wood has been stacked, which pile to use next...)

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6603
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 24 10:09 am Post subject:

You could absolutely track it, but I don't think most bother.
My car has an associated phone app that is showing me the total energy used for the four most recent trips. Those were all run off of charging from my residential power. I imagine there's some difference between power used to charge and power used to drive, but I bet it's close enough.
While I would need to record those figures every 4 trips, I bet there are ways to automate that information to go into a spreadsheet....

When you pay to charge at a charging station you typically get a report that includes the total power used (and the price of course).

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6603
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 24 10:13 am Post subject:
Attempting to post a screenshot here..... Attach file opens up a new tab, but when I attempt to upload it just shows that tab refreshed and back to defaults.... Maybe just not disable from phone?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45643
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 24 11:27 am Post subject:
never tried attaching from a phone, should work though

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8848
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 24 2:48 pm Post subject:
I'll ask Waerloga what he does....

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15891

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 24 7:33 am Post subject:
I don't know that they always err on the generous side; I know ICE cars tend to show ideal conditions, but somehow we get a lot more mpg from our hybrid than the manufacturers say. Think it may be our style of driving and the fact we don't do a daily commute at high speed with intervals of traffic jams, although I do find it very economic in traffic.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9831
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 24 8:19 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

I don't know that they always err on the generous side; I know ICE cars tend to show ideal conditions, but somehow we get a lot more mpg from our hybrid than the manufacturers say. Think it may be our style of driving and the fact we don't do a daily commute at high speed with intervals of traffic jams, although I do find it very economic in traffic.

this is why I am interested in how much people *actually* spend rather than theoretical figures. It might well be better than reported.

There is a figure banded around regarding how much tumble driers cost to run - this figure is used to prove a dehumidifier is a more efficient way to dry clothes - yet when I measured what both my tumble drier actually used, and what my dehumidifier used, the figures were way off. The dehumidifier was a lot worse, and the tumble drier a lot better. Turns out, regarding tumble driers, that although the figure was reported widely, it came from only one source and that source made incorrect assumptions - like tumbling for much longer than I do, etc..
Manufacturers theorectal figures are usually inaccurate as they are based on assumptions and averages.

So when people say ' it costs me this much to run my Ev, the manufacturer tells me so' I tend to faze out... I find it quite surprising that people dont know the actual figures.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6603
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 24 10:30 am Post subject:

You might find miles per kwh to be a useful metric.
My car (Ioniq 5) averages around 4 miles per kwh.
Just like ICE cars, that number can be a fair bit lower or a fair bit higher depending upon conditions, and more so depending upon how heavy your foot is on the accelerator.
To balance efficiency and just wanting to be able to get places in a reasonable amount of time, I aim to be averaging well over 4 miles per kwh, but it's difficult/rare to stay as high as 5 if you're driving includes many stretches over 45 mph

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9831
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 24 12:05 pm Post subject:

Slim wrote:

interesting. What speed would you find optimum? and what conditions makes the mpkwh go down? I guess weight of load must be a factor. weather conditions?

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6603
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 24 1:10 pm Post subject:

It's all the same factors that affect fuel efficiency, but it's probably just more noticeable when you're looking at the information on the EV dash.
Fast accelerations, sustained driving above 50 mph, with the air drag increasing more and more as you go faster, weight, etc.
Windows down or towing something or carrying it on the roof will also impact things, etc.
For normal day to day use the biggest factor I notice is just whether I'm driving around like a lead foot or not.
I get the best efficiency when I avoid highways, and I play around with trying to build momentum on downhills leading up to uphills.

waerloga

Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Posts: 9

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 24 9:58 pm Post subject:

A number of points here;
If you have solar panels, house batteries or EV you need to look at the tariffs available. Octopus has lots of different tariffs, I am on "Octopus Go" for EVs. This gets me 5 hours at 8.1p/KWh from 0:30.

A smart EV charger will log the energy used and you can copy it into a spreadsheet for analysis.

Small energy meters that fit the same space as a circuit breaker in a consumer unit are available, these could be one option to monitor the EV charger circuits in a multiple occupancy house. I think there are probably more professional solutions for this problem.

On EV efficiency my eNV200 (small van) is about 3.8 miles/KWh my Energica (high-performance motorbike) is around 7 to 10 miles/KWh.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9831
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 24 10:54 am Post subject:

waerloga wrote:

....

A smart EV charger will log the energy used and you can copy it into a spreadsheet for analysis.
.....

that's the thing

thanks

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6603
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 24 11:33 am Post subject:

Yes, but a smart EV charger may also cost about $1000 more than a dumb one.....
And if you are aiming to schedule your charging, most new EVs can do that through their app, or just the actual interface in the car. (Though a smart charger might be a slicker interface)

I went with a dumb charger, but my utility doesn't offer a very attractive off-peak rate to take advantage of. If that changes I can still schedule what hours of the day the car allows charging to occur, through the car itself (And I might need to be using that interface more often pretty soon to schedule times that the car pre warms the cabin while still connected to its charger, as winter is approaching)

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28218
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 24 5:25 am Post subject:

Battery claims
The following link is to the complete list of claims I have been compiling.

https://martindavidwalker.blogspot.com/2024/09/battery-claims.html

The new claims in the last week are as follows.

October 2nd 2024, Altech deploy solid state sodium chloride battery for testing
The batteries are claimed to have a 15 year lifetime. Cheap sodium batteries are a key factor in renewable energy storage.

https://www.eqs-news.com/news/corporate/altech-advanced-materials-ag-puts-first-cerenergy-battery-prototype-batterypack-abs60-into-operation/2139847
September 29th 2024, Hyundai promises cheaper LFP battery production
The article alludes to the much touted $100 per kwh figure that was meant to mark production price parity with ICE cars, and puts the 2023 cost at $139. But both BYD and CATL have talked about prices halving in 2024 which would put current costs at $70.
The Hyundai process which eliminates a production step is a promise of another cost reduction.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/09/27/hyundai-cooks-up-a-low-cost-ev-battery-scheme-for-the-affordable-ev-of-the-future/
September 26th 2024, General Motors to produce CATLs 6c charging battery in China
This is a life line for general motors whose sales have collapsed in China. News on this battery that can fully charge in 10 minutes has been around since June, but now we hear it will be in cars in 2025.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/09/26/general-motors-to-produce-ultra-fast-6c-charging-ev-in-china/
September 25th 2024, cheap iron chloride cathodes
The revolutionary material, iron chloride (FeCl3), costs a mere 1-2% of typical cathode materials and can store the same amount of electricity.
The cost of their whole battery system is 30-40% of current LIBs as no Nickel or Cobalt is used.
The technology is pitched as being less than 5 years from commercialisation.

https://news.gatech.edu/news/2024/09/22/new-battery-cathode-material-could-revolutionize-ev-market-and-energy-storage
September 23rd 20202, Lechanche launch long life battery with niobium based anode
The claim is a 10,000 life cycle battery suitable for heavy duty mining applications.

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